badmouthing our president

habilis

habilis

Ministry of Re-Education
is cool these days I guess. I mean the dixie chicks were cool enough to do it in another country showing a complete lack of a spine. However they fail to understand that we like them for being cute little white trash country girls, not politicians. Even our ex presidents have sunk to all new lows by bashing the president in other countries abroad that seek to dissolve the US, and empower the EU. That's the same as bashing your wife to your friends. It's so trashy. Janine, I can respect because she at least has the backbone to go on TV and put herself up for criticism.

Badmouthing our president is cool these days I guess. Has anyone in the anti-war crowd found the time to bash Saddam? I submit to you that they haven't. In fact what they do is embolden him and raise him up on a pedestal, encouraging his defiance, encouraging him to NOT take exile, and in the end, this will cost thousands of more innocents their lives. Saddam himself, in the book "Saddams Bombmaker" calls the people of the peace movement "Usefull Idiots".

The armchair anti-war people need to know who they're really in bed with, and the hidden truth about what their actions cause.
 
What's with this "cute little white trash country girls" thing? It would seem that you've just joined the badmouthing bandwagon.

Since when has criticism become an "evil" thing? Unless I'm mistaken this country was settled by disgruntled europeans who were unable to criticize their leaders. Are you advocating that we turn into a 16th century european empire where only one religion is tolerated and freedom of speech isn't?

Please understand that nobody wants Saddam in power and also remember that the reason he is in power is because "daddy" Bush failed to have him removed after the Gulf War. My perception of Iraq and Saddam has definitely changed. He's a tyrant in a secularly ruled Muslim land. His ruthlessness in eliminating all political opposition has definitely led to his ability to remain in power as long as he has.

There is an ethnic group in eastern Turkey and northern Iraq called the Kurds. They are landless and stateless, kind of like the Roma in Eastern Europe. The "prez" was going to sell the Turks the right to basically annhiliate both the Turkish Kurds and the Iraqi Kurds in exchange for a few billion dollars and the right to invade Iraq from Turkey.

But hey, what is a little ethnic cleansing amongst Nato Allies, at least the Turks weren't part of "old" Europe.

Not only will the prez' war have a negative impact on the Kurds it will also negatively impact the lives of millions of Iraqis. The Bush Admin. is screaming about WMD in Iraq but who is standing up for all the Iraqis injured in the Gulf War from the depleted uranium weapons used by the US? We know they cause a great deal of harm, Iraqi hospitals are filled with the living dead. Why don't we stand up against their use? Is it more "moral" that we use chemical weapons to take out Saddam?

I hope you are truly friends with Toast. It was the French who were responsible for the American liberation from the British. It shames me to see how poorly we are treating such a staunch ally. Now more than ever we need "un voix de raison".

If idiots are defined by their belief that human life is to be valued above all else, then yes they are useful.
 
Originally posted by Ugg
I hope you are truly friends with Toast. It was the French who were responsible for the American liberation from the British. It shames me to see how poorly we are treating such a staunch ally. Now more than ever we need "un voix de raison".
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I have no fiends on this forum :)
 
Originally posted by habilis
badmouthing our president is cool these days I guess.
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I guess you lived under a rock or something during the Clinton years. Many of Bush's supporters have said far worse about Clinton.

:rolleyes:

I'd be willing to bet money that you were guilty of doing it too. You seem like that type of hot-headed Republican. Considering that you don't show your fellow forum members respect when they differ with you on political issues, why would you show a Democratic President (or democratically elected President) any more respect.

But hey, you could show us all how to be respectful. You could even start by removing disrespectful and offensive parts of your post. Not your political views, just the parts were you categorize and belittle other people, their views and their life style.

We could start stopping the badmouthing of everyone (including our president) with this very thread. Are you up to it?
 
Look, I have yet to hear one good thing about Saddam in this conflict. Yes, he should be removed, yes, he should be disarmed, yes, he is ruthless, yes he is a threat. Nobody thinks otherwise.

What people critisize is the way USA/UK wants to handle this situation. You're basically telling him:
"We're gonna attack you, please hand over your weapons first"
Well, actually, UN wants him to hand over his weapons while US wants to attack...outcome is the same, it would be foolish of him to surrender his weapons right before a war. And that's the critisizm in it all, there WILL be a war, Bush is making that rather clear.

Saddam woudl not co-operate with the weapons inspectors if he didn't fear war, how about this scenario?
You line up for invasion outside of Iraq and arm yourselves, then send the inspectors in. Instead of saying "We'll attack in 2 weeks, surrender your weapons now, please", send another message. "The minute you're NOT co-operating any more we're launching this attack. No sooner, no later"

Seems to me to be a much better way of handeling the situation
 
best sign i saw at the protests yesterday - "Somewhere in Texas a village is missing its idiot"

but then again, i was badmouthing Bush long before he was president. :D
 
Hmm...I just moved from Texas 3 years ago...I told people not to vote for him. Heh

But I have to say - none of us are missing that particular idiot ;)
 
Originally posted by habilis
...Even our ex presidents have sunk to all new lows by bashing the president in other countries abroad that seek to dissolve the US, and empower the EU. That's the same as bashing your wife to your friends. It's so trashy. Janine, I can respect because she at least has the backbone to go on TV and put herself up for criticism.
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I've read a lot of strange and one-sided ignorant things on the net, but this is one takes the cake.

It is not only our right to "bash" the president, it's our responsibility. Criticism, much like the criticism I'm giving you habilis, is often mistakenly taken as disrespect, when in fact it's not. It's simply an opposite opinion, stated in public.

We empower the president of the United States. He/She is a reflection of us, not the other way around. If we don't agree with what the president is doing, guess what, we have a duty, as Americans, to speak out. Period.

Badmouthing our president is cool these days I guess. Has anyone in the anti-war crowd found the time to bash Saddam? I submit to you that they haven't.
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Well here's one thing you're right about. Anti-War people probably have not taken the time from their anti-war protests to insult a man who is second only to Hitler in world popularity.

But don't worry, I'm sure the "anti-war" people will get on that, because that's the most important issue facing America right now, right?

"Bashing" leaders from another country serves no political purpose whatsoever. If I'm "Pro-Bush" is it my civil duty to make fun out of Saddam? How is breeding that kind of hate "better" then what Saddam is doing?

The armchair anti-war people need to know who they're really in bed with, and the hidden truth about what their actions cause.
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The word "armchair" implies that they are not doing anything... when in fact they are. In case you haven't noticed, countries across the world, are in opposition to the war. An majority of your fellow American citizens are against going to war.

America is a minority in the world for the first time since World War II. (and we were then because we were the only country against the war).

And please be so kind as to tell me the "hidden truth my actions are causing." You speak as though you know something the rest of the world doesn't. If so, I submit the request of your knowhow for the betterment of mankind.

Lastly, a rare support for celebrities...
You know the last time I checked the "Dixie Chicks" were all American citizens, subject to serving the country, just as the ex-presidents already have. Considering that fact alone, gives them every right and privilege you and I have. If they want to speak out for or against the war, they have every right to do so. I am not obligated to listen to them, nor you me.
 
Originally posted by Ugg
I hope you are truly friends with Toast. It was the French who were responsible for the American liberation from the British. It shames me to see how poorly we are treating such a staunch ally. Now more than ever we need "un voix de raison".
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Those Frenchmen who helped America defeat the British in the revolutionary war helped America for the same reason America aided Vietnam in the Vietnam War. France didn't care about America other than the fact American Independence would splinter British colonial power in America since France had lost the French and Indian War.

Also let us not forget the government in France at the time was an absolute monarchy. France today is quite different having been through numerous changes in government since the time of American Independence.

Countries become allies only when it is in their best interest to be allies. Countries stand for certain principles and ideas because it is in their best interest. A country does what it must to maintain and/or increase its power and influence.

Let us not fool ourselves with misconceptions that our governments/countries stand for anything other than themselves and perhaps the people they represent/control.
 
France today is quite different having been through numerous changes in government since the time of American Independence.
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You certainly meant 'numerous changes in regime', am I right ?
 
"Can anything be stupider than that a man has the right to kill me because he lives on the other side of a river and his ruler has a quarrel with mine, though I have not quarrelled with him?"
- Blaise Pascal
 
About badmouthing the president of the United States of America... We're not doing it, actually. He's doing it. Just turn on the TV and listen to him. "Good", "Evil". The day the twin towers fell, he said he was going to war against terrorism. There wasn't any reflection on the sources for the attack. There wasn't any sign of 'keeping options open'. This man was going to war. He has made that clear and he told us many times that he WANTED it to be clear.

The people you say are badmouthing him are only seeing what he's saying ever since: He's a dangerous man and he's going to be in a war until either he's dead or another person is the president of the USA.

So. Yes. There's gonna be a war. Yes, war is a bad thing. Yes, the US are preparing to bring war to many places all over the world.

Let that go through your head one more time: The US are bringing war to places all over the world.

Now think again how it comes that people are 'badmouthing our president'. He's the president of one country, albeit a big one. The world is not behind Mr. Bush on everything.

The Bush administration is going too far. And either way, they'll have to learn it.
 
Originally posted by evildan

Originally posted by habilis
...Even our ex presidents have sunk to all new lows by bashing the president in other countries abroad that seek to dissolve the US, and empower the EU...

I've read a lot of strange and one-sided ignorant things on the net, but this is one takes the cake.

It is not only our right to "bash" the president, it's our responsibility...
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I think his point was that former US presidents generally don't bash the current US president, it's a courtesy thing. He was sorta agreeing with you by saying that at least the Dixie Chick had some nads.

BTW, why is what the Dixie Chick said "her right and responsibility", but what habilis said "ignorant". He's entitled to his opinion to right?
 
gulfwar2.jpg

Source: Idle Worm

PS: This is humour about Bush being badmouthed, that's why I post it.
 
binaryDigit,

habilis is in indeed entitled to his opinion, his request that "bashing the president" is somehow anti-american is what I found to be ignorant. (again, just another opinion).

I think his point was that former US presidents generally don't bash the current US president, it's a courtesy thing. He was sorta agreeing with you by saying that at least the Dixie Chick had some nads.
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Yeah, I got that... but I don't think we were in agreement. The former presidents typically don't speak out against the current president, in day-to-day policies, however, if you check your history book, you'll see that their voice is a bit more prominent in a "pre-war" state as we are now. (either speaking out for or against). I think the former presidents (Clinton and Carter of course) are speaking in opposition as a way of representing the bulk of the population that agrees we shouldn't go to war. A more prominent tradition, and one that I follow, is that if America does go to war, we all support the effort, while in progress. Not conceding of course the premise that we are not in a state of war any longer then we have to.

And let me be the first in this thread to state the obvious. Going to war is going to mean dead Americans. Your brothers, sisters, friends, cousins and relatives will be directly effected by this war. You can't avoid that. And it should be considered. Bush, up until this point has shown nothing but an arrogant unblinded point-of-view that America will somehow just go to war, fight and win.

This is not true. It's never been true. But we're going to war anyway.
 
I only read / skimmed the first page, and I'm already sick of the dripping sarcasm. Instead of lashing back at your opposition with some snide sarcastic remark, take a breath, listen to what they're really trying to say, and try to convince others of your position. And this goes for all sides.
 
After taking some of my own advice (taking a breath,) I'd like to lighten up a little myself. :rolleyes: If you interpreted my last post as preaching at all, please know that's not what I'm trying to do... I just want everybody to treat everybody else with due respect. :)
 
binaryDigit, hablis is entitled to say anything he wants, so are the Dixie Chicks, but that doesn't mean there is any responsibility to believe what they say. I agree with the Dixie Chick's statements. A lot of people didn't and considered it ignorant. Because of that some radio stations are boycotting them. Fine. Both sides acted fully within their rights.
 
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