MAC OS X Badmouthed (You all love me really)

Ever since the second GUI was on the market (and let's *not* care here what the first two were) there was the bashing of GUIs.

Some points he makes might not be entirely wrong, but to say he misses some shareware that worked in OS 9 and is not yet available in OS X is just pathetic, isn't it? There's already DragThing for OS X and other launchers/switchers are around, just search versiontracker.com for net's sake.

I say: If you want to compare the Aqua UI to Mac OS 9's Platinum UI, just do it *without* any additions. And give the free- and shareware world a bit of time.
 
i'll have to admit i couldn't finish it. the agruments were so weak they reflect more poorly on the reviewer than on osx.:cool:
 
Originally posted by FrgMstr
Just think we wouldnt have such interesting arguments if it werent for me.

What argument? So someone doesn't like Mac OS X... so what? If I had a dollar for every person who hates the GUI of Windows I would be rich.

You are right though, it is a great site. The Register is one of the worst enemy of Microsoft. Considering the ratio of Mac bashing to Windows bashing on that site, I would highly recommend it.

Better luck next time on starting an argument.:D
 
Interesting article. This guy comes from an OS9 background. I do not, I come from a Linux/Windows background and I think the UI on OSX is stellar.

He concludes, "that with OS X, you're buying Apple in spite of the user interface, not because of it. "

Actually, I bought my machine because of the UI and I don't regret it for a second. Just today I was writing an engineer I work with telling her how much I love my machine. She asked, "Did just do something to it?"

"Nope, I just love this thing." I answered.

I wonder if I came from an OS9 background if I'd find the UI to be lousy. I really doubt it. His complaints seem so minor to me that I never give them the time of day. Things like, "The dock covers the bottom of the app." So? Auto-hide the dock. That's what every other OS does and it's works.

Missing spring loaded folders: Yeah, I'd like that. It will come but I can't imagine switching to an absolutly horrible (from an OS internals perspective) OS like OS9 because the folders didn't spring open.

I can nit-pick every OS until I have nothing to switch to. Instead of doing that I'll just enjoy OSX.

I bet he this guy will even have problems with the G7 powered iGinger with a LCD screen running OS 10.3 that Steve is going to announce on Monday. :)
 
I'm a huge Mac fan, so it hurts me to say the following:

I've made the speed argument here a few times, only to get trashed by people that seem more than happy to wait for things like Explorer, Window resize, file renaming, Omniweb, etc. All of those things and other speed issues I find completely annoying.

I think what most of us X advocates are really promoting is what X will be in the very near future. As each new app appears and new machines arrive (that can almost run X smoothly), I believe more and more that it will be a truly robust and superior OS.

I know the "just wait and see" argument seems silly, but really X is less than a year on the market (Beta doesn't count to me). I am giving it one full year for an official analysis and two years before I really start getting picky.

If X doesn't surpass OS 9's speed on a good machine in March of 2003 and all the little things like spring-loaded folders, labels, etc., I'm gonna be pissed. Until then, I'm going to continue to harp that some key elements of X are TOO DAMN SLOW and I don't care if it's Apple's fault or the program's fault. All I know is that iTunes can't sustain 30fps on an 800DP! WTF!

I like X, I really do. I use it 70% of the time now. It's almost there. Almost. Here's to hoping Monday pushes it over the edge.
 
Wow. This is the third time in two days I've heard someone call The Register something in the vein of "respectable" or "reliable" or "trustworthy". Have I somehow ended up in an alternate universe? The Register doesn't even take themselves that seriously, much less expect someone else to.

Honestly, The Reg is marginally better than the National Enquirer of the IT world.
 
You know what makes his argument laughable? The fact that numbers 1, 4, 5, and 6 of his point are ALL about the Dock. Forgive me for saying this, but if you base 4 points of your argument on 1 nit-picky thing that is actually QUITE USEFUL, don't expect many Mac users to agree with you.

By the way, some of his points are stupid anyway, because he doesn't get it. First of all, he says the Cmd-tabbing feature can only be used in the order of the applications on the Dock. What a stupid argument! What OTHER order would you like the Cmd-tab feature to be used in. In the order that Mr. Orlowski deems appropriate through a GigaWire connection to his brain? Gimme a break. You can Cmd-tab and cycle backwards and forwards. Plus, you can supposedly press H while Cmd-tabbing to hide the application and Q while Cmd-tabbing to quit it (I've never gotten this to work though -- can someone please fill me in?). And if you don't like the order of the Cmd-tabbing? WELL FOR APPLE'S SAKE, MOVE THE FRICKIN' ICONS ON THE DOCK! You can have them Cmd-Tab in any order you like if you just move the icons around! Sheesh. Some people.

Also, about the speed argument. It was best summed up by Jack on www.appleturns.com (last Friday's episode). As soon as he fired up OS X 10.1.2 on his new Dual-800 G4, he finally got what Mac OS X was all about. It's about the future. Apple made NO compromises in OS X -- it's beauty, it's power, it's elegance, and it's potential. The result? OS X may seem slow and clunky on today's hardware, but it is finally the hardware that has to catch up to the software. On Jack's new Dual-800 G4, OS X screamed. I've experienced the same result on my dad's new Titanium 667. Why should Apple slide the OS down a couple notches just so it works well on today's hardware? The answer? It shouldn't. We want a modern operating system, and we now have one. You'll have to make a few compromises for this, and the big one is that you'll have to upgrade your hardware if you want it to scream like OS 9 did. IMHO, Apple made a good decision in this respect -- on the new GHz G4s or G5s they will release on Monday, I'm sure you can expect to be wowed by the speed of OS X on one of THOSE babies.
 
Originally posted by simX
First of all, he says the Cmd-tabbing feature can only be used in the order of the applications on the Dock. What a stupid argument! What OTHER order would you like the Cmd-tab feature to be used in. In the order that Mr. Orlowski deems appropriate through a GigaWire connection to his brain? Gimme a break.

In Windows it uses the order that you most recently used the app. I assumed that was what he wanted. Given that I normally use two or three apps while the rest just sit around waiting that is a better solution (for me). Still, this seems like a minor issue. A quick alt-tab takes me to my last app, in OSX, I normally have to cycle through a bunch of apps.

Originally posted by simX
OS X may seem slow and clunky on today's hardware, but it is finally the hardware that has to catch up to the software. On Jack's new Dual-800 G4, OS X screamed. I've experienced the same result on my dad's new Titanium 667. Why should Apple slide the OS down a couple notches just so it works well on today's hardware? The answer? It shouldn't. We want a modern operating system, and we now have one.

Well, I tend to agree with this. Again, using the windows/mainstream world to set expectations (I realize a lot of people won't like that benchmark) I would expect machines released 6 months before the OS was released to run nicely. A little older should run it but run it poorly. I'm sorry if this is a hardship on people. I especially understand that students and people outside the US have a harder time buying new machines. However, new software often requires new hardware. We want it to do more, we need to give it serious hardware.
 
Originally posted by vanguard
In Windows it uses the order that you most recently used the app. I assumed that was what he wanted. Given that I normally use two or three apps while the rest just sit around waiting that is a better solution (for me). Still, this seems like a minor issue. A quick alt-tab takes me to my last app, in OSX, I normally have to cycle through a bunch of apps.

"seems like a minor issue."??? He's taking issue with the whole UI of OS X based around the dock and this issue. Talk about over-inflating your complaints.
 
Will you people please stop mousing and cmd-tabbing to get to your apps!!!
[he says all in good fun :)]

I don't understand why direct keyboard shortcuts don't catch on more. I know of one other person besides me that uses that sytem, but once you do, there's no going back.

Youpi Keys allows you to program your own "macro" to launch any app based on any key combo. Youpi keys works great in X and has all kinds of other great features that I haven't used yet.

Downloadable from versiontracker.com

Better yet, when voice recognition becomes what we all want it to be "Photoshop" [launch] "Whoopee". Currently, it's "Fudge Shop" [Launch].
 
so once more we have the "it's not like a pc" arguement against macs!!

which is also the best argument to buy and use a mac!!!:)
 
"Why would I spent my time on WinXP forums posting negative reviews of WinXP?"

oh...I thought out loud again....

anyhow, I know the answer...
 
Nah i dont spend my time posting negative comments(Ulrik that was nasty), i just bring up interesting points which are worth debating. I mean the Register is a very large professional site another good site is www.slashdot.org and www.theinquirer.net if any of you care to look at them.

The guy in the article best sums up his argument in one statement whether being picky or not those are just his feelings using the OS "Death by a thousand cuts" nothing is obviously wrong there is just alot of annoying things. Granted little things like what he mentions can obviously be very easily fixed but he does have a point with speed issues, as underlined by a guys earlier post with a dual 800 G4 machine.
 
I know OS X has it's flaws, there are other things which annoy me...

one thing which isn't really made clear in the review, IMHO, is, while OS X might have some speed issues (I am running a 867 Mhz and it runs really good here), native Apps tend to be faster than native OS 9 apps. Compare iMovie, compare Quicktime export, compare Cinema 4D (allthough it is not even native but carbon), compare iDVD 2, compare Office v.X (ok, it's a newer version)

The GUI might not be as fast as 9 or Win, but it offers also possibilites the mentioned OS doesn't have.

 
Hey, I like the Register and their style of reporting. However, if you read all of Andrew Orlowski's posts over the last 9 months, you will see he has never really embraced OS X. And you know what, that's OK.

The thing that really bothers me about the minority of people bitching about OS X's interface is that they are all bitching about the same things, and just about every issue they complain about can either be adjusted to suit their preferences, or at least modified with a free third party app.

For instance, if you don't like the dock, DON'T USE IT. Download ASM (freeware), or Menustrip 2.0 ($12), and get back your Application Switcher Menu. Or download FruitMenu and get back your customizeable Apple Menu. Set the Dock to hide and never deal with it again. Downoad SNAX and replace your Finder. It's that simple.

I was not completely enamoured with the Dock when OS X was first released. However, in time, I grew to like it, then love it, then I completely abandoned the previously mentioned tools and relied solely on the Dock.

Is it perfect? No. I can still think of a few enhancements to it that would make me happy. But for the general masses, it works quite well. And for people who are new to computers, it works AMAZINGLY well. Apple clearly designed the Dock for the lowest common denominator, and that's fine. Just so long as they realize power users need extra features and they get implemented over time, I'm OK with it. As it is, I feel the Dock is about 85% there. Enough that it doesn't get in my way too much and is helpful when I need it...

The biggest thing I think Mr. Orlowski fails to realize is that OS X is like going back to the egg. Square one. OS 9 had a good interface, but it was far from perfect, and most people forget this point - more than half of the "neat" things we like about it came from third party sources originally. Apple only incorporated them in to the OS when people cried loud enough for them to know what they wanted. And how long did OS 9's interface have to arrive at it's final incarnation? Over 17 years.

Still not convinced? Let's run down the list of "features" of OS 9 that started their life as third party shareware.

1) The customizeble Menu Bar Clock
2) Pop Up Folders
3) Windowshade
4) System Sounds
5) Themes
6) Sticky Notes
7) The Extension Manager
8) PPP Control Panel
9) Tear off Menus (came via Next purchase)

And I'm sure there are lots more I'm forgetting. Most of these features didn't ship up until at least System 7.5, which was released in the early 90's. Apple had almost 10 years of development on the Mac OS GUI at that point.

I realize your argument will be that Apple, having put all that development in to OS 9 and it's GUI, should have just taken that GUI and put it on OS X. Here's why I disagree with that.

OS 9's GUI, while heralded as the best GUI available for an commercial OS, still has some major drawbacks. For starters, there is no easy way to drill down to a folder that is several levels deep. Sure, you can use an alias. But aliases are confusing to novice users. You could also create a pop up folder. But if you have several of these, they quickly litter the bottom of your screen. Not to mention, if you use the Control Strip, it will obscure a good portion of that Pop up folder real estate.

In OS X, you can get to that folder easily in a number of ways. First, you can still make an alias to that folder on your desktop. Even easier, you can drag that folder to the Dock. If you don't like to use the Dock, you can drag that Folder to your Finder's toolbar Window and easily access it from there. Also, the Column view gives you a Window that not only shows you where you are, but has "breadcrumbs" from where you started at least 3 levels. OS 9 never had anything that intuitive.

I think Apple did a decent job in stripping away what was wrong with OS 9's GUI and supplanting it with new, more efficient ways of getting things done in OS X. It's still a work in progress, as any OS is. But it is better than any other GUI out there, including WinXP, and especially OS 9.

And finally, about the speed issue. OS X 10.1 may not do everything as fast as OS 9. But overall, even on a machine like a G4/400, it handles the majority of tasks better than OS 9. Case in point - Mr. Orlowski mentions rebooting in to OS 9 and being amazed at how fast IE runs. However, in OS 9, try to do anything else while IE launchs and you'll be reminded that OS 9's multitasking is cooperative, meaning certain tasks completely monopolize the system and lock you out from doing anything at all. Granted this may only be for a few seconds, but in those seconds under OS X, I may switch over to check my e-mail, or check on a render I'm currently doing in Lightwave, etc.

OS X will run on anything with a G3 or better. WindowsXP will run on anything better than a PII233. You wouldn't catch me running XP on anything less than a PIII600, and I wouldn't run OS X on anything less than a G3/G4 400. Yeah, it will run, but OS X is the OS of the future, and Apple simply couldn't (or didn't want to) get the speed out of the older machines to run the OS at acceptable levels. This shouldn't be a big surprise. Apple is in the hardware business. They want you to buy new hardware to run their latest OS. OS X is designed around pushing the hardware envelope. This is how progress is made. Hardware and software continually leapfrog one another. We now have an OS that can take advantage of the current hardware and our future hardware. The drawback is that it doesn't run (as) great on hardware from 2 years ago. That's how progress is made.

I'm sorry Mr. Orlowski found it necessary to boot back in to OS 9 and ditch X. I do webdesign for a living and have been using OS X exclusively since 10.1 came out. The funny thing is, the other day, after defragging/optimizing my harddrives with NUM, I accidentally booted back in to OS 9 for the first time since September. I decided to try and do my work for the day in OS 9 instead of X. I figured I'd see a speed gain since a few of the apps I use (Photoshop, Dreamweaver, Flash) are all OS 9 native. Boy - was I wrong. Aside from constantly looking for the Dock and missing my Finder Toolbar and Column view, I had to deal with all of the quirks that prompted me to leave OS 9 in the first place.

The bottom line is OS X is nothing like new Coke. If it were, Apple would have already recanted and pulled the existing product and restablished the Classic OS as it's future. Apple has sold most of it's hardware in 2001 because of OS X, and will continue to do so. I'm sure we'll see additional gems from OS 9 reappear in X (Spring Loaded folders are coming back for 10.2), but OS X is now the Mac OS of the present and future. The masses really enjoy it, and I'm afraid those who don't are a very small minority.

Sorry Andy....
 
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