Adobe: Here we go again...

serpicolugnut

serpicolugnut

OS X Supreme Being
Well, it seems Adobe is further strengthening their Windows only offerings, and trying to get their foot in the door of the Audio market...

Adobe is purchasing Cool Edit Pro , a PC only app that competes on the low end of multitrack audio editors.

I seriously doubt Adobe plans on releasing a Mac port, since they've already stated they will not compete with Apple in their Mac offerings.

So, now Adobe has the following Windows only apps:
Adobe Photoshop Album
Adobe Encore (DVD authoring)
Cool Edit Pro (or whatever they rename it)

Plus, the next version of Premiere is supposed to be PC only.
 
why is this a problem? why should Adobe have to compete with DVDSP, Logic or even iPhoto if they don't want to?

which are you going to use, iPhoto which is free and awesome or PS Album which is $49 and doesn't integrate with the other iApps seamlessly?

you must have forgot, companies like Adobe are in the business of making money, not making you happy. if Apple wants to keep butting competitors out with their own apps (take Sherlock 3 and Watson for example, a clear ripoff), then dont cry when companies no longer want to waste their time with the Mac platform.
 
Those particular apps are meaningless, but what is important is the Adobe/Apple relationship, which appears to be more and more sour by the month.
 
why is this a problem? why should Adobe have to compete with DVDSP, Logic or even iPhoto if they don't want to?
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Nobody said they should. But if you don't think this is the beginning of a problem, then you aren't paying attention.

I fully understand the decision not to compete with Apple's free offerings. That makes perfect sense.

But choosing not to make Encore for the Mac is nothing more than a decision based on spite. DVD Studio Pro doesn't have the entire Mac DVD authoring segment locked in. Encore would probably sell quite well on the video centric Mac. But in doing so, Adobe would be strengthening the Mac video solution, which in turn strengthens FCP, and weakens Premiere.

which are you going to use, iPhoto which is free and awesome or PS Album which is $49 and doesn't integrate with the other iApps seamlessly?
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Which ever gets the task done better. I'm working on a review of PS-A now, and can tell you from first impressions, it does quite a bit that iPhoto doesn't, plus it doesn't suffer from the abysmal performance of iPhoto (at least not yet, still working on getting the entire photo catalog loaded to see how well it performs).

you must have forgot, companies like Adobe are in the business of making money, not making you happy. if Apple wants to keep butting competitors out with their own apps (take Sherlock 3 and Watson for example, a clear ripoff), then dont cry when companies no longer want to waste their time with the Mac platform.
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As an Adobe shareholder, I understand this fact more than most. Choosing not to compete with free bundled apps from Apple is a wise choice. But, IMHO, choosing not to compete with commercial offerings where Adobe could clearly make money (Encore and CoolEditPro, for instance) is not a wise choice. It furthers a self fulfilling prophecy of diminished Mac sales. And believe me, eventually, when Mac sales become such a small percentage of Adobe's revenue, they will cut development of all their apps.

Everybody hypothesizes whether the Mac could survive without MS Office, but the real threat is whether the Mac could survive without Photoshop and Illustrator. Without these apps, and the other apps in Adobe's library that complement them, the Mac is a dead platform for graphics professionals.
 
Apple is not making many efforts to improve this relation, as far as I know.

[Example]
How is it their 21th century OS does not even have font preview in the Finder ? Bullsh!t. If any serious designer had been involved in the MacOSX development, the Finder would be able to preview fonts and to organize them like ATMDeluxe/Reunion does in OS9.
 
I personally don't care about an Adobe audio application. No need for it. I also don't see those apps missing from the Mac platform as a problem (agreeing with Kendall). It wouldn't make sense for Adobe to compete with the good and free alternatives.

With Toast, I have to agree on the font handling stuff. There's only two of the big font handlers left. I'm currently stuck with Suitcase, which isn't too bad, but this would _really_ be a place where I'd hope Apple would create their own, Finder based, solution. Sure, it's not the sexiest part of an OS. Can't craze the kids with a good font handler. But Apple should put more care into the designer market. We're the ones paying their lives after all. Sure, iPods and iMacs make money, too. But we're the ones buying PowerMacs and PowerBooks for Steve's sake!

But I certainly don't fear that Adobe would leave the Macintosh platform for good. Illustrator, Photoshop and InDesign just sell too good on the Mac.
 
I personally don't care about an Adobe audio application. No need for it. I also don't see those apps missing from the Mac platform as a problem (agreeing with Kendall). It wouldn't make sense for Adobe to compete with the good and free alternatives.
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Well, anybody who uses FCP or DVDSP regularly cares about an audio application, and having one bundled is a big addition. Apple has bundled a primitive one with FCP4, so they obviously see the need for it. Just because you see no need for it, doesn't mean that the platform doesn't need it.

Nobody is arguing that Adobe should make products that compete with free offerings from Apple...

But if you can't see what Adobe is up to, then you are missing the big picture.

Adobe and Apple are partners in the graphic design business (Photoshop, Illustrator), Desktop Publishing (InDesign), and Web Design (GoLive). But Adobe has taken an adversarial posture towards Apple in the audio/video content creation market. Stopping Mac production of Premiere was the first volley. The second will be Encore, which looks quite sophisticated, even when compared with DVDSP2. Due to abysmal performance since v. 5.5, Adobe After Effects Mac sales have fallen to under 15%. There is serious talk that this might become a PC only app too, since it competes with FCP, and Adobe is out to recapture this market segment at all costs.

Couple this with the state of the current apps under OS X on the Mac... With the exception of GoLive, it's not pretty. Photoshop, Illustrator, After Effects, Livemotion, InDesign - these apps are all faster under the PC. Is Adobe spending more time optimizing for Wintel - or is this due to working with a new OS and Apple's mhz problems?

But I certainly don't fear that Adobe would leave the Macintosh platform for good. Illustrator, Photoshop and InDesign just sell too good on the Mac.
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Define "too good". As of Q1 2003, Mac sales (on whole, for all apps) are down to around 27% for Adobe. At one time this was over 60%. These revenues keep declining, and at this rate, could be in the single digits in under 5 years. Adobe knows this, and it's reflected in their recent actions. Those promotions of Dells on their website are a harbinger of things to come.

I'm not afraid of Adobe leaving the Mac platform any time soon, but if you look objectively at the data (graph it out if it helps you), the line on the graph is going south, and coupled with recent behavior, it doesn't look all that peachy for the future (3-5 years)...
 
Without Adobe apps (plus a few others FCP Pro Tools etc.). Not only is the mac platform dead there really is no point in it existing. Apple should heal this division before its too late. They probably wont' though, see you guys in windows...
 
Let me alleviate some of these concerns...at least to some extent.

If there is one single reason why Adobe isn't going to dump Apple any time soon, it's because of Quark.

Adobe wants the prepress market. Adobe needs Apple to get there. Quark is soon to be OS X native, which means Quark is really going to be in the driver's seat for a long while. InDesign is nothing without AI and Photoshop as support apps, which are tightly integrated.

As for AE and GL, that's a whole other problem. GL has a good chance of sticking around because I believe Mac users slightly prefer it over Dreamweaver (this is total speculation on my part, I have no data).

I fear for AE in a couple of years though. Especially if Apple gets Shake in a reasonable price range.
 
27% of Adobe's sales is not a small number. Compared to Apple's market share out there, it's still hilarious. InDesign is quite 'cheap' compared to Quark right now, so ID might appeal to 'lower end' (not low end) graphics design shops also because of the price.

I'm with you here: Apple _has_ to do something about it. But the fear that Adobe might one day leave Mac users in the dust is just much too early.

Illustrator 11 is currently in Beta for Windows and Mac OS X, and so is InDesign 3 (although that'll take a bit longer, I guess it'll come out not long after XPress 6 for marketing reasons).

I think it's just wrong to take this as if it were an argument of too hotblooded persons. Adobe is looking at their finances. And like other businesses, they have to make money at the end of the day. They are making money on the Mac platform. It doesn't really matter what the ratio between sold licenses between Windows and Mac applications is, as long as the profit they make on the Mac versions is good. Having two platforms is certainly a) a problem (you need more development man hours) but b) also a chance, as keeping the development as cross-platform as possible enables you to add/remove platforms as you go. I'm pretty sure Adobe doesn't want a one-rail strategy depending on Microsoft.

Knowing Microsoft a bit, I'd guess as soon as Adobe would start doing a total Windows-only revamp, MS would start to create (better) design oriented applications in order to grab a piece of the cake.
 
Knowing Microsoft a bit, I'd guess as soon as Adobe would start doing a total Windows-only revamp, MS would start to create (better) design oriented applications in order to grab a piece of the cake.
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You bring up a very interesting point. The MS factor is probably the best reason against Adobe hedging their bets on an all MS policy.

It doesn't really matter what the ratio between sold licenses between Windows and Mac applications is, as long as the profit they make on the Mac versions is good.
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If Adobe made all their decisions based upon profit, that would make sense. But look at the Premiere/Encore decisions, and you can see that's not the case. Premiere always sold well on the Mac, and did big business in bundling with video cards/capture devices. Encore would most likely be a big hit on the Mac, even with the competition from DVDSP2. Premiere has seen it's last Mac version, and Encore will be Windows only. The only reasons behind this are strategic. Adobe still has hard feelings regarding FCP (and DVDSP), and it's actions are quite retalitory. After all, Mac versions of these apps face less competition than they do in the PC arena.

27% of Adobe's sales is not a small number. Compared to Apple's market share out there, it's still hilarious.
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It was hilarious when it was 60% Mac. That was about 4 years ago. In 4 years it lost more than 50%. In 4 years it could drop another 50%, putting it around 10-15%. At that point, Adobe would start evaluating production costs. If the cost of doing a Mac version is more than the projected revenues, you can bet that Adobe will drop it.

I don't mean to sound as if the sky is falling, because it isn't. But the recent actions of Adobe do paint a "less friendly" attitude towards the Mac, and that's a concern. Apple's survival is tied more to Adobe than any other company, and any damage to the relationship and the fruits of that relationship are damaging, short term and long term.
 
I don't own any Adobe applications, but I'll bet that if they dropped their Mac side, there would be some serious outcry going on.
 
i know i would immediately sell my mac if adobe dropped. the mac has virtually no advantage to me without adobe. the OS is good, but not that good. i'm already getting weary of not being able to do a few things my pc counterparts can. they're small, but they add up to frustration.

however, there are a ton of things i can do my mac that pc users can't, but they're really just luxeries. i can't base my computer purchase on luxuries alone.
 
boi, you sound very much like you see adobe leaving the mac market in a few weeks if not days. are you sure? i'm not...
 
OK, so the mac, with what? 4 percent of the market? represents 27 percent of Adobe's sales and that's not worth their while?

Down from 60 percent... hmm, is it that sales are down or is it that the pc side is booming, just because of sheer volume of users. The real question is what is the net?

There are three kinds of lies, white lies, damn lies and percentages. ;)

Sounds like my dad complaining about the stock market - he buys in at $12, the company goes to $60 and when it drops to $55 he moans about loosing money
 
If Adobe were to leave Mac, I'd quit Mac too.
But Adobe is not leaving Mac. So I'm not quitting either.

:)
 
All I really care about from Adobe is Photoshop, and that's not going anywhere.
 
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