FireBird becomes FireFox...

octane: I'd say Apple chose a different way for implementing form fields. That's all. Other than that, I find Safari's CSS and XHTML support more than good enough. I also have to say that I _love_ the fact they're not using those ugly form fields and buttons other browsers do, as they don't look 'Mac' to me at all.
 
Look at it from my point of view: I have limitations imposed on the utility of UI that I spend hours developing.

I have to use a non-Apple browser to showcase my applications to my clients so that they can see them the way they were designed to look.

I don't like having to do this.

Worse still, I'm in the throws of developing a suite of web-based applications for the creative market, this will feature macs almost exclusively.

To ensure consistency, simplicity and ease-of-use, I've created a very distinctive style for the applications [don't ask for examples, I really am not prepared to do that for commercial reasons].

I'm now having to contemplate recommending that my customers _not_ use Safari. This is the worst case scenario for me. I simply don't want to have to limit the choice of my customers.

I don't find the UI of other browsers ugly, not when you can configure then to such a high degree where Apple choose to leave you with little or no option at all.

The bizarre thing is, in the example I submitted, Safari somehow does almost exactly the opposite of what the css describes!?

But just to make the point clear, I use Safari almost exclusively .. ever since the beta version.

This is NOT me bashing Safari. This is me pointing out the limitations of Safari...
 
octane:

[suggestion]
why not u design the website that looks nice on Safari. maybe u can alter the form section to suit the Apple form style... im 50% agreed with fryke regarding the form field but the other half is that Apple has limited the use of CSS when it comes to form filed.

anyway, happy designing and CSS-ing...
 
azrad said:
octane:

[suggestion]
why not u design the website that looks nice on Safari.
Click to expand...

For my software, maybe. I'm going to need figures on Safari uptake before I commit resources to that.

The point is, why should I have spend time and money to work around the shortcomings of someone else's software?

azrad said:
... maybe u can alter the form section to suit the Apple form style... im 50% agreed with fryke regarding the form field...
Click to expand...

I'm 100% not in agreement. They're choosing to _completely_ ignore some of the styling options of css.

You can't even add a colored background to a form field. This is the staple of all browser css compliance. Apple have chosen to totally ignore it.

This isn't simple interpretation on Apple's part, or misinterpretation for that matter, this is Apple simply ignoring common and everyday portions of css.

azrad said:
... but the other half is that Apple has limited the use of CSS when it comes to form filed.

anyway, happy designing and CSS-ing...
Click to expand...

I'm hoping Apple are going to see the light and at the very least offer proper css validation as an option in the next update...
 
I can't see how it could be the code if the site works fine in all of the other browsers.

I'm satisfied that it's Safari not playing nicely.

But, I'm more than happy to let you have a look around to see if there are any gotchas.

Click on the top button: Bonus Fire...
 
i think the problem here is Safari itself ( for octane case )... this is due to how Safari handle Form fields in HTML.

Safari developer should look into this area and try to come up with some ideas regarding this issue. A suggestion might be, if the user hasn't assigned any CSS on the form field, the Safari will use default browser setting, else the CSS should override the default browser settings.
 
Watch your CSS, you're missing some ;'s that should be there on the end of each attribute. You also have no doctype specified for the HTML.

Styling forms is a debatable topic, as alot of accessibility issues arise from it. From what I can recall, the problem lies in the KHTML engine right now. Apple has wisely decided to make a product that works first, then worry about simple and insignificant minors like CSS styles on form elements.

The mozilla project needs to do alot of work too, especially in areas concerning EMs. We just had a major snafu with a list-based vertical nav bar that was collapsing bottom borders...cause by the lineheight being specified in EMs. Firebird and Mozilla totally screwed up the code, unless you specified it in pixels. Guess what got it right, regardless of how many time we resized/zoomed up or down?

If I had to pick, I would much rather have the layout/nav portions work correctly than silly form colors. Give em some time, they'll get it all up to spec...heck, we're on what release again?
 
mdnky said:
If I had to pick, I would much rather have the layout/nav portions work correctly than silly form colors. Give em some time, they'll get it all up to spec...heck, we're on what release again?
Click to expand...

Layout and form elements are part of the same equation; ergonomics.

There's nothing silly about form field colors when enforcing consistency and simplicity.

Yes, you're right about Safari being just out of the trap, but css is a major part of accessibility for special needs people. Fortunately, the errors with Safari's rendering of css don't impinge too much in that area.

I have faith in Apple. If there is a problem with the KHTML engine, then maybe Apple will fix it and hand those changes back to the open source community?..
 
Cool extension I found! It's called EditCSS. It let's you hit cmd-8 and see the CSS of any web page! Then it lets you edit it and it will change the page on the fly! Awesome! You can click the "empty" button and remove all CSS. Try viewing Apple's web site with no CSS!
 
I was pawing over the extensions list last night. It's huge!

All I could find were silly games, calendars and weird menu enhancers. I was loosing the will to live. Maybe I'll have another look later...
 
It's the first I've seen of Safari with concerns to any serious shortcomings. I've only ever found Safari to be 'far-too' compliant (everything looks great and standardised until you check out IE)! Far better than that POS IE6 for Windows.

I agree though, the points you've raised are valid... I'm surprised that such a CSS recommendation hasn't made it in.

If you really want to get some feedback 'out there', go over to: http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/hyatt/ ...Safari developer a-go-go!

On a Firefox note, taking up where Solrac left off, head over to http://www.chrispederick.com/work/firefox/webdeveloper/ for the most essential Web developer extensions ever! Has made Firefox indispensable.
 
erm... i believe that the new Safari is much better than the previous. last time when we do pop-up a window which automatically open Printer Window is not valid on previous Safari. but the new one supports this features.

i was wondering about the compatibility of KTML engine and the Mozilla engine since some of the javascript acquired Mozilla ver 1.3 (HTMLArea) which i dunno the equivalent of this ver on the KHTML engine.
 
The state of web browsing under OS X is incredibly strong. All three gecko based browsers are starting to really mature. Camino development has picked up lately (check out the new icons/look in the nightly builds - purdy!), Firefox is going to be the best cross platform browser available, and Mozilla is solid as a rock. Omniweb 5 is going to get it back in the race with some cool innovations, and Safari is rock solid and gives us a great browsing experience right out of the box.

Microsoft has given up on innovation in the web browser market. From what I've read, they are looking at trashing the integrated IE and rebuilding a browser from scratch. Gee, who would have thunk it?
 
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