Firefox Should Have a Warning Label
- Thread starter Amie
- Start date
Mikuro
Crotchety UI Nitpicker
Themes can only change the look, though. If it were just the looks that bothered me, then...well, it wouldn't really bother me. The problem is that Firefox doesn't act or feel like a Mac program. And so far all the themes I've tried only make it even less Mac-like. 
Just to give one example, look at the popup menus anywhere in Firefox (e.g., control-click, or use a menu in your personal toolbar). They're complete hacks, and don't look or act the way Mac menus should. Appearance-wise, I don't really care; I don't like OS X's menu transparency anyway. But working with these menus, especially when they have sub-menus, is a pain in the kiester, because it doesn't work the way every other program does. Using Firefox, I feel like I might as well be running Windows-in-a-Box. Applications should not invent their own basic UI controls. That's what we have OSes for.
Most other controls in Firefox have similar problems. It's a big turnoff.
Firefox also doesn't get some of OS X's goodies like the floating dictionary (Tiger only), built-in spell checker, etc.
I really want to like Firefox. It's so flexible, and it makes the geek in me happy. But it makes the Mac user in me very, very sad.
Firefox is still my second browser, though, and has earned a place in my Dock, right below Safari. It's by no means a bad browser. But it has an awful lot of rough edges.
By the way: I just recently tried OmniWeb again. It really doesn't get the attention it deserves. Of course, that's probably because it's not freeware like every other popular browser. I recommend checking it out.
Just to give one example, look at the popup menus anywhere in Firefox (e.g., control-click, or use a menu in your personal toolbar). They're complete hacks, and don't look or act the way Mac menus should. Appearance-wise, I don't really care; I don't like OS X's menu transparency anyway. But working with these menus, especially when they have sub-menus, is a pain in the kiester, because it doesn't work the way every other program does. Using Firefox, I feel like I might as well be running Windows-in-a-Box. Applications should not invent their own basic UI controls. That's what we have OSes for.
Most other controls in Firefox have similar problems. It's a big turnoff.
Firefox also doesn't get some of OS X's goodies like the floating dictionary (Tiger only), built-in spell checker, etc.
I really want to like Firefox. It's so flexible, and it makes the geek in me happy. But it makes the Mac user in me very, very sad.
Firefox is still my second browser, though, and has earned a place in my Dock, right below Safari. It's by no means a bad browser. But it has an awful lot of rough edges.
By the way: I just recently tried OmniWeb again. It really doesn't get the attention it deserves. Of course, that's probably because it's not freeware like every other popular browser. I recommend checking it out.
I like my browser _without_ visible interface besides a titlebar and scrollbar(s). OmniWeb therefore has been my default choice since the days of Rhapsody DR 2 and Mac OS X DP 4/Public Beta, back then because there _wasn't_ anything else (IE5 in Public Beta was s.l.o.w.!) and later on because it was simply too good.
And wow, Amie: You seem to be on a roll...
And wow, Amie: You seem to be on a roll...
powermac
iMac Dual 2.0 17'
Safari is my default browser. Although I hope that Leopard brings some well needed improvements.
Camino is my second choice, I enjoy the speed of the browser. I don't use it often because of no spell check.
FireFox, is a great browser, very robust. Like everyone has mentioned, it is not Mac enough to capture my daily use. The themes are fun, and I do play around with them. In the end I still prefer the basic buttons, etc.
Camino is my second choice, I enjoy the speed of the browser. I don't use it often because of no spell check.
FireFox, is a great browser, very robust. Like everyone has mentioned, it is not Mac enough to capture my daily use. The themes are fun, and I do play around with them. In the end I still prefer the basic buttons, etc.
symphonix
Scratch & Sniff Committee
Mikuro said:
Yes, OmniWeb does do some things really well, especially archiving an entire page and all its links. It also seems to have one of the best download managers you'l find. It seems to have way too many configuration options for my taste, though, and because it is the last browser on the market that isn't actually free, I only try it out every so often, when they release a major update.
Amie said:
Err, you live under a rock in some sort of desert and post messages on the forums by passing them to a mysterious stranger who takes them to the Internet Cafe for you in exchange for your advice on religious matters?
Seriously, Amie, I know Safari blocks pop-up ads. But AdBlock, SafariBlock and PithHelmet block *ALL* the ads on the pages themselves. With the GoogleExtensions and YahooExtensions tools, you won't even see Google or Yahoo text advertisements on the page, and when you run Google searches you'll only see results based on Page-Rank, and not sponsored links.
Just as well, I couldn't tolerate Google once more coming back with top results like "You can save money on all kinds of MEDIEVAL CHIVALRY on eBay! Click here" or "Books and DVDs about THE PHONE NUMBER FOR YOUR LOCAL PIZZA PLACE available now on Amazon.com!"
Amie
Mac Convert for Life
You know too much. LOLMikuro said:Themes can only change the look, though. If it were just the looks that bothered me, then...well, it wouldn't really bother me. The problem is that Firefox doesn't act or feel like a Mac program. And so far all the themes I've tried only make it even less Mac-like.
Just to give one example, look at the popup menus anywhere in Firefox (e.g., control-click, or use a menu in your personal toolbar). They're complete hacks, and don't look or act the way Mac menus should. Appearance-wise, I don't really care; I don't like OS X's menu transparency anyway. But working with these menus, especially when they have sub-menus, is a pain in the kiester, because it doesn't work the way every other program does. Using Firefox, I feel like I might as well be running Windows-in-a-Box. Applications should not invent their own basic UI controls. That's what we have OSes for.
Most other controls in Firefox have similar problems. It's a big turnoff.
Firefox also doesn't get some of OS X's goodies like the floating dictionary (Tiger only), built-in spell checker, etc.
I really want to like Firefox. It's so flexible, and it makes the geek in me happy. But it makes the Mac user in me very, very sad.
Firefox is still my second browser, though, and has earned a place in my Dock, right below Safari. It's by no means a bad browser. But it has an awful lot of rough edges.
By the way: I just recently tried OmniWeb again. It really doesn't get the attention it deserves. Of course, that's probably because it's not freeware like every other popular browser. I recommend checking it out.
Seriously, I see what you mean now, though I hadn't really noticed it until you mentioned it. I just enjoy the functions and appearance. I don't really think about whether it's "Mac-like" or not.
Two features that I really do like in Safari that Firefox is lacking: 1) The check-spelling-as-you-type option. Not sure why FF developers left that out. Copy editors/designers like myself sure would appreciate the added feature. 2) The single tab close button for each individual tab. Fortunately, FF has a feature to alert you if you're about to close multiple tabs, so I'm not too hung up about the missing tab buttons on each tab. Still, it would be nice.
Amie
Mac Convert for Life
B-o-r-i-n-g!fryke said:I like my browser _without_ visible interface besides a titlebar and scrollbar(s). OmniWeb therefore has been my default choice since the days of Rhapsody DR 2 and Mac OS X DP 4/Public Beta, back then because there _wasn't_ anything else (IE5 in Public Beta was s.l.o.w.!) and later on because it was simply too good.
And wow, Amie: You seem to be on a roll...
Yeah, I'm on a roll. Wanna slather some butter all over me?
Amie
Mac Convert for Life
How did you know?!symphonix said:
Ah ... yes, OK. I see what you mean. I was thinking of pop-up ads. Gee, I don't even notice those ads in Google or Yahoo anymore. Been using them for so long, it doesn't even phase me. Truth be told, I don't mind 'em at all ... and sometimes ... I even read 'em.symphonix said:
Lt Major Burns
"Dicky" Charlteston-Burns
it's only when they've gone do you realise just how subconciously irritating they were. pithhelmet forever baby.
It's not boring. It's maximising screen real estate! Why spend 20-50 vertical pixels for buttons that can _all_ be controlled via the keyboard anyway? I mean: Why have back and forward buttons (of _whatever_ theme...) if you're going to hit Cmd-RightArrow/LeftArrow anyway... At least that's how it is for me. I don't like wasted space...
HateEternal
Mac Metal Head
Mikuro said:
Totally, definitely one of the biggest issues. However, there are some instances where this is nice compared to Safari. I dislike how Safari always uses its buttons/text fields regardless of the CSS. I like creating my own control look, meaning, I like defining border colors and background colors for my controls in CSS because it often fits the overall site design better than big aqua buttons, Safari does a poor job of representing those.
fryke said:
Exactly! I can't say I do it all that much on my Mac, but at work and on my Windows machine I manually shrunk every thing. Title bars are tiny as hell, scroll bars are about 8 pixels wide and the task manager is tiny (all at 1600x1200). I love it but anyone that comes over to work with me on my computer absolutely hates it.
Mikuro
Crotchety UI Nitpicker
Fryke, I don't understand what you mean about OmniWeb using less screen space. You can collapse the toolbars of Safari and Firefox, too. Actually, my biggest gripe so far with OmniWeb is that it takes MORE space than other browsers. Its tab drawer is much bigger than regular tab bars. Am I missing something?
It's a pity there are still such clear differences between Carbon and Cocoa in practice.
This has me seriously reconsidering Firefox. Ohhh...here I go again.
Uhh...thanks?Amie said:
It's because Firefox is written with Carbon, whereas Safari uses Cocoa. Cocoa apps get a lot of things "for free", like spell checking. It might be possible to access these things from Carbon (I'm not sure), but it certainly takes work, whereas with Cocoa you'd have to go out of your way NOT to have these features. Most Carbon apps, like Firefox, AppleWorks, and even the Finder, don't have these features.
It's a pity there are still such clear differences between Carbon and Cocoa in practice.
I've been looking around Firefox's extension page, and I found a gem called Tab Mix Plus. It gives you a close button on every tab, plus a lot more. With this, Firefox's tab system skyrockets past Safari's. Finally I have the option to have links that open in a new window open a new TAB instead! (A feature I've previously seen only in iCab.)
This has me seriously reconsidering Firefox. Ohhh...here I go again.