Meet the Board of Directors... who are they and what do they have to do with us?

MacLuv - while i haven't the resources to dispute the claims of the authors, it doesn't take much knowledge of hermeneutics to figure out that we shouldn't take statements like these at face value. From the authors own admission, he feels slighted and mistreated by Jobs for not getting his cooperation, especially after his glamorous list of past accomplishments. While i am sure there is an ounce of truth in all the statements that remind us that Jobs is mortal, and a few more ounces of embellishment in all those that would imply he is not, i cannot find anything but antecedol evidence for damning the man.

always consider the source - not too long ago, there were a couple of trolls on this site who felt picked on and mistreated and shouted out about the injustices that were heaped upon them. in fact, you recently felt similarly as i recall. Between these incidents, i have been called many things, including a nazi. I would hope that by now you realize that i am not all those things that i have been accused of. i'm not perfect, but i'm not a monster either.

those who put themselves in the public's eye shall always be targets. those who refuse to play the media's game by the media's rules will be treated harshly by those who wield their pens in judgement. For me to form any kind of real opinion of Steve jobs, or any of these board members, i would need to meet them personally and spend some time around them. that's not likely to happen anytime soon. so the best i have to go on are my media experences with Jobs. When he controls them, he comes off looking like a powerful and charismatic man - charming, bright and the kind of guy you'd like to go on a fishing trip with. When the media controls them, he comes off looking like a geek at best, and more often like an ego driven narcissist. (of course, Bill Gates comes off about the same except i can't imagine going fishing with Bill :D ). again, i would guess that the real SJ is a little both and more like neither.

but let's get even closer to home, shall we, in considering how we judge others. I have many times perceived you to be egomanical, narcissistic and extremely rude. i've watched you berate others in ways that, had they been standing next to you, you might have seen the anguish and hurt wash over them. there is in fact the chance that you have caused others to be depressed at the way you gloated over them. "Hey, people should have thicker skins than that", i hear you say. maybe, maybe not. but if that is so, then maybe those that you hold up to condemn jobs should have had thicker skins.

actually i can attest that someone recently got very hurt by other's replies to a thread they started. i am sure that no harm was meant and the replies were just playing around. but the person who got hurt was so upset they requested the thread be deleted. I didn't delete it, because i was convinced that all would work out and it did, i believe. But should i have judged the other posters' intentions and character by this person's reactions? especially when i didn't see them as being as damaging as the person who was hurt? Hardly seems fair does it?

But to get back to you - at other times you come off as extremely helpful, knowledgeable and even caring. a regular upstanding member of the community. and in fact, you publicly announced that you are making an effort to be nicer to others. personally i acknowlege your changes, your good intentions and your personal growth effort. Does that mean i suddenly see you as the best guy around here? sorry, it doesn't. But i do see you as a real person, an intelligent person with both functional and dysfunctional character traits. I like you well enough like that. and in the end, i see Jobs like that as well.

there, now that you have seen yourself being perceived as others have perceived Steve, how do you feel? (ok, once you get past being defensive, how do you feel? ;) )
 
i feel alright. i'm guessing Steve and the board do as well. Bill probably feels great. We should all feel as good about ourselves as we can given that we are human and will inevitably make mistakes that effect/affect others. some we can correct, others we're stuck with. :)
 
then why don't you do so with evidence of actions, verifiable sources, direct connections between steve and the things you feel are wrong, instead of resorting to hearsay and questionable "authorities"? I can understand that you might believe this is a good place to communicate with apple stock holders, but i doubt any of them are going to do much because steve's not Will Rogers or some journalist got his feelings hurt and wrote a vindictive book about steve. gotta do better than that.
 
Hmm... I own a TiBook G4/500. Steve Jobs was at his place when the machine was introduced. It's a very, very good machine. I love it a lot. Never had a better PowerBook/iBook before, and I had quite a few of them (150, 180c, 520c, eMate 300, 190, 5300ce, iBook/300). Currently, Apple offers a 1 GHz TiBook with SuperDrive that I would by this instant - if I had the money. But I don't.

So: TiBook good, Steve Jobs good. And all's well in the world.
 
I've always pictured Jobs as the kind of person that tortured animals as a child. He obviously had issues in his earlier years but I don't think that is so much the case today. He is a control freak but wouldn't you be about your own creation?

I don't think Apple is in a bad state now. They have a top of the line OS, their prices are getting in check with reality and they are introducing new technologies that are making the rest of the industry drool.

I'm just guessing but I don't think Jobs would have taken on the PC industry without something big planned in the near future. I think 2003 is going to be the year of the Apple.

There is one thing about Jobs that no other CEO in the world could match. Passion. He loves Apple Computer. Its his baby. He would fight tooth and nail for its survival. What have other CEOs done in the face of adversity? Walked away. What would any other CEO do right now with Apple Computer? Play it safe. Jobs takes chances. He isn't afraid to put his neck on the line and 9 out of 10 times he delivers. This is why Mac users love him.

Leaving Apple was the best things Job could have done. He was able to get some real world application and business sense. So NeXT was a failure, but don't forget, it gave us the solid OS X we have today so in many ways it was a success.

Up until recently Apple and Dell were the only two computer companies to make a profit during the technology fallout.

As for Apple's financial analysis, that's a joke right? Why don't you compare Apple against other computer companies with similar market share that compete against the PC industry and then tell me how bad of shape Apple is in. Not to mention that you chose to do an analysis of Apple right after they posted a profit loss.
 
Originally posted by MacLuv
I can see you've put a lot of thought into that analysis Fryke, thank you for your input.
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I was answering to your: "As far as providing a direct connection between Steve and the things I feel are wrong, the connection is this: I own an Apple eMac and Steve Jobs is the CEO of Apple."
 
There are the creative and the destructive ways of changing things.

You obviously think Apple is in a very bad state. You think this is (partly) Steve Jobs' fault. You saw him lead companies that died before. So your solution is to exchange Steve Jobs.

I won't rule out that Steve Jobs may be a part of why Apple does as bad as it does - although I disagree here, I think Apple does wonderfully for a company that is betting on a processor that lags behind in marketable features (i.e. GHz) - but I think you'd throw the good out with the bad by making Steve Jobs leave Apple.

Nobody is ever perfectly good or bad. Steve Jobs certainly has 'features' that even you'd have to credit him. Even the worst enemy of Steve Jobs would still have to agree that this boy has a certain charisma. Among other important things.

I think if you would come here saying: "Look: This is the man/the woman Steve Jobs should be replaced with!" And that with profound arguments, I would respect you much more.

But the attitude of saying "This is bad, hence it must go..." just doesn't cut it. Not for me, at least.

I tend to replace things only if I am sure to get something better. But with Steve Jobs it's a bit different. Chances are big that his replacement would be far worse for Apple.

Who could lead Apple? Someone from within? Phil Schiller? Yawn. This - in fact - *IS* a pop show job. You _know_ that someone else is in charge of Apple's finances, right? Okay. An external person? Who? Tell me.
 
It's the feeling I get sometimes, yes MacLuv. :)

There's some error in your logic... You say you don't want to replace Steve Jobs. You say he's good for the company as the marketing magic man (okay, that's my emphasis). You say he can't be just that (because of his character profile). And you think Apple should hire a CEO under which Steve could do marketing magic?

I think Apple has _found_ the solution to this problem. They need Steve Jobs. He's not only a visionary and a great marketing man, he's - again - the man in front. The _other_ tasks of the CEO have been well divided among the very capable men and women working at Apple.

If you think Steve Jobs' _vision_ of Apple is wrong, then we'll just have to agree that we disagree.
 
from the lips of MacLuv
I LUV U ED! *smootch*
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yuck!! cooties !!

*Ed runs and gets a paper towel and wipes his face, his moniter and his keyboard.* :p

also from the gentler MacLuv
Fryke, don't take this as an insult, just as me goofin' on ya... I think you should be the head cheerleader for the SPJ fan club... I hear you get free posters and you can talk to your friends about him all night long on iChat! He's just so... dreamy! Like Davy Jones!
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as someone who sees Steve as neither demi-god nor demon, i must say that i think you're misreading Fryke. I think he does a pretty good job of sticking with the record here and not inflating Jobs' importance. I don't think he comes off as some groupie in the least. (at least as compared to some of the other folks around here).

i personally tend to like Steve because of he is someone who has pretty much stuck to his principles from the beginning. You're so big on quoting from Triumph of the Nerds, then perhps you'll remember that it was Steve who was first approached by IBM. Steve, being the wary long hair geek that he was, took caution and wanted things like lawyers before he would sit down with them. so they, not wanting to be bothered with potentially having to deal fairly with someone, took the discussions to Billy who said, "sure, come in. I don't care that you represent all that is wrong with the world at this point in time. i'd be glad to sell you what i've got and get myself out of this crummy place i'm living in now." (ok, i've put words in Bill's mouth, but that is the jest of what happened :D ). and Steve has stuck by his principles all the way thru, even to the point that it cost him his relationship with his child - apple. I respect that he has endured hardships and made mistakes and learned to overcome them. It is this kind of perseverence that leads me to believe that Steve will find ways to make sure there is an apple of the future or risk it all trying.

as for your concern about revolving door market share, that's fine with me. i'm still not real fond of switchers and 'nixers, etc. who keep wanting the mac to be more like windows or 'nixes. i want my mac to behave like a mac. and i'm willing to pay more for it do so. the day it starts behaving like a pc, i might as well buy a pc. I've said it a hundred times, so why not 101 - i don't want to see apple become big and overly popular. i don't want to see apple become the next m$. and i'm willing to pay more for my mac and the software and peripherals to insure that. Not having to deal with daily virus checks makes up for the extra cost easily.

you seem to be judging Steve and apple upon the one flaw of not having fast enough processers. yet there are so many other things that apple is doing right, or at least better than any of their competitors. Like osx for example.
 
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