the new G5 in maya Render benchmarks

[gerbick]

its : 'Those G5s lost.' to be exact.
Simply without an apostrophe, but it doesnt make a big difference !

Shouldn't it be "it's" as in "it is "Those G5s lost"?

Semantics has a role, I can guarantee you that. But not in a 3D render benchmark. However, (no sarcasm) thanks for the correction. That was an unintentional mistake.

dktrickey... I was wrong - hey, twice in one thread.

http://www.digitalproducer.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=9806

It's about dual G4s vs. P4s.

But I do quite remember plenty of stories where the Opteron outclasses the P4 and the G5 - http://www.technewsworld.com/story/31867.html for one instance.

 

[gerbick]

Frustration with Windows XP can quickly lead to homicidal rage. That can quickly add up too.

Pop up: Would you like to take a tour of Windows XP?
You have unused icons on your desktop. Would you like to clean them up?
Why is there a puppy dog in the search program?
Where in the #@^$#?? h#ll is the firewall setting?
What are all these stupid little applets that insist on launching at boot-up? Can I go to the Startup folder to disable them? No? Why the #%@%?? not?
Why did my machine just shut down after I dialed up to the Internet?
My wife's friend managed to have 1500 files on her hard drive infected by viruses. What the?
HOW MANY programs do I have to buy to get rid of all this spyware?
What IS this network virus that is actively attacking her computer?
WHAT DO YOU MEAN _I_ didn't shut down the #$#(ing computer properly. YOU #*$#*$?? crashed you *#$*%?#ing piece of $h!l!

the tour thing happened once for me. never again.

puppy dog? turn him off. it took the same amount of clicks it took for me to set up how I like for all of my icons to be 40x40 in all windows in Finder; yet when I create a new folder, it still does what it wants to until I change it.

The differences between the OS's is just that. A difference. I've had one virus since the Monkey B Virus in '96... and it was my dumb butt that put it there.

Spyware? I use Mozilla - it's also more W3C compliant anyway. Besides, a lot of the spyware people have - not all - are just tracker cookies. Safari likes 'em too.

As an user from both sides, they both have little quirks that can annoy you to the point of lost religion.

But you just described a rank n00b. I don't see any of those issues... maybe you're not banging on the PC right

But I'm not here to advocate PC/Mac. I'm merely a person that does a lot of graphics that found the original numbers interesting. Competing so closely to the FPU intensive Opteron isn't anything to laugh at. And just imagine if they both had fully 64-bit OS's that could fully utilize the memory bandwidth and graphical subsystems of either OS.

But they don't. And that's not even touching the application itself.

I think once you start seeing G5 specific - like the Photoshop core plugins rewrite - optimizations, that gap will close. That's if they don't broaden the gap on the Opteron.

It lost. By only a little bit... no worries other than I'd wish I'd have that extra time if it were crunch time. Been there, done that.

 

[Viro]

I'm bored, so I thought that I would respond

Pop up: Would you like to take a tour of Windows XP?

Happens only once when you first log in.

You have unused icons on your desktop. Would you like to clean them up?

Err... just say no?

Why is there a puppy dog in the search program?

How exactly does that affect you? Just ignore it and get on with your searching.

Where in the #@^$#?? h#ll is the firewall setting?

Right where it should be! In the Network Properties. OTOH in OS X, it took me a while to find that the Firewall settings were in Sharing and not Network under System Preferences. Being someone who doesn't share files/printers/etc, Sharing was the last place I looked.

What are all these stupid little applets that insist on launching at boot-up?

Most people don't bother about these. If they do, they'll know how to get rid of them by running msconfig.

Can I go to the Startup folder to disable them? No? Why the #%@%?? not?

Some apps appear in the Startup folder. If they don't it really is the fault of the programmer and not the OS.

Why did my machine just shut down after I dialed up to the Internet?

Eh? I know Windows can be crappy, but that bad? What did you do?

My wife's friend managed to have 1500 files on her hard drive infected by viruses. What the?

This I agree. The beauty of Windows

HOW MANY programs do I have to buy to get rid of all this spyware?

Three. Mozilla Thunderbird, Mozilla Firefox and AdAware.

What IS this network virus that is actively attacking her computer?

This affects Macs as well we Linux machines. When the latest Windows virus saturates the network with traffic, our machines slow down too because of it. Really annoying. Windows machines should be banned from networks.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN _I_ didn't shut down the #$#(ing computer properly. YOU #*$#*$?? crashed you *#$*%?#ing piece of $h!l!

Ever tried shutting down your mac when it was optimizing the system? No, don't try it out

Windows isn't my OS of choice. But I'm not biased against it and I do realise that while it doesn't work for me, it works for a lot of people out there.

And this still doesn't detract from the fact that in the Maya benchmark, the Opterons pretty much had a 20% lead over the G5s.

 

[Pengu]

Quote:


What IS this network virus that is actively attacking her computer?



This affects Macs as well we Linux machines. When the latest Windows virus saturates the network with traffic, our machines slow down too because of it. Really annoying. Windows machines should be banned from networks.

I assume you are talking about sasser. It doesnt actually "affect" Macs or Linux or Unix etc. It INfects windows PCs which in turn can slow down the network by sending the same virus over the network. You can't say that is "affecting" a mac/linux pc any more than you can say "That Mercedes is affected by rust just like an old dodge pickup. When the back bumper falls off, the Mercedes has to stop or swerve.

AND

ote:


WHAT DO YOU MEAN _I_ didn't shut down the #$#(ing computer properly. YOU #*$#*$?? crashed you *#$*%?#ing piece of $h!l!



Ever tried shutting down your mac when it was optimizing the system? No, don't try it out

I'm sure it isn't good. But he didnt say he had turned off/shut down while he was say, doing a system restore, or a defrag. The computer CRASHED all on it's LONESOME and then said YOU DID NOT SHUT DOWN YOUR COMPUTER PROPERLY. That is very different to YOU shutting down BY CHOICE whilst doing something that modifies/moves system files.

 

[Elliotjnewman]

this thread seems to be turning into a bit of a war! All I wanted to say is that the G5 is performing really well, better than I predicted. Besides how long can you own until the next machine becomes available, if you wanted the fastest machine all the time then you would have to update every 3 or so months. I think coupled with OSX the G5 is a great choice for 3D these days.

 

[Viro]

@Pengu: It affects, not infects! It brings the networks down all around us and that's the annoying part. So I guess it is like your example of the Mercedes being held up by a pickup truck, carrying manure, in a massive traffic jam. The Mercedes is a great car, but there's nothing much you can do in a jam, is there?

With regards to crashes, Windows has improved a lot in that department. The OS X example still holds. What if your app crashes when it's optimizing system performance? Rarely happens, but it still happens. Same goes for the Windows crashes.

Now I'm not a Windows apologist. I hate it with a vengence for my own reasons, but it so happens that I don't think any of the stated points are being fair towards Windows.

 

[soulseek]

im only 19 years old.
ive only used computers at home.
but with my little experience, ive seen many windows PCs suddenly restart or watch the BSOD appear after a fresh install or within a few days.

thats simply how Windows are, u cant judge anythin simply from ur point of view.
maybe some Wintel users here have a good knowledge of the system, and barely have any problems. but what matters is the average user...
and even though ive been using computers as a hobby ive seen lots of problems involving Wintels than Macs, (both hardware and software).
and this IS my opinion, noone can really change it, cause i experience this everyday. ppl around me using windows experiencing problems, while my mac simply works...
hey, my powerbook might not encode a DVD into SVCDs as fast as any PC but it does it without any problems ( and without the battery finishing in 1 hour)

 

[Pengu]

That is exactly my point. It affects the network. dktrickey specifically said "What IS this network virus that is actively attacking her computer?"

it doesn't attack Macs or Linux. AND because it uses a port used ONLY by MICROSOFT systems, and NOT needed for most stuff, it can be BLOCKED at routers, managed switches, firewalls, etc, nullifying the affect. And as much as it "affects" all computers, you can blame a mac for the windows pc slowing down the network. you CAN AND SHOULD blame the windows pc. get my point?

 

[gerbick]

last I checked, ports 80, 443, 21, 22, 25, 110 and some others are also used by Mac/Linux as well.

some virus (virii) propagate via those ports. as far as the earlier statement, when you have an infected Windows machine in your domain/workgroup, and it's sending out broadcast packets like no other, it does affect your network via packet collision/packet storm. those are serious problems with infected Windows machines.

now... letting your machine get infected... bad administration of that machine.

anyway, back to the subject...

the Mac platform went from a distant 3rd place behind Opteron and Pentium 4 respectively, to what's looking like a close third, if not second place. And that's since the debut of the G5.

Better things are in store... can't wait.

 

[Viro]

That is exactly my point. It affects the network. dktrickey specifically said "What IS this network virus that is actively attacking her computer?"

it doesn't attack Macs or Linux. AND because it uses a port used ONLY by MICROSOFT systems, and NOT needed for most stuff, it can be BLOCKED at routers, managed switches, firewalls, etc, nullifying the affect. And as much as it "affects" all computers, you can blame a mac for the windows pc slowing down the network. you CAN AND SHOULD blame the windows pc. get my point?

Hence the original comment, Windows PCs should be banned from the network. Chill out.

 

[Lycander]

this thread seems to be turning into a bit of a war! All I wanted to say is that the G5 is performing really well, better than I predicted. Besides how long can you own until the next machine becomes available, if you wanted the fastest machine all the time then you would have to update every 3 or so months. I think coupled with OSX the G5 is a great choice for 3D these days.

You're also forgetting Lightwave, Cinema 4D, and perhaps a bunch of smaller lesser known names.

My biggest gripe is the selection of video cards, not the CPU. G4's weren't that bad, but what is it that was holding back the 3D crowd? Why isn't 3D DCC as big on the Mac as say DTP, Photoshop, illustrations, basically anything 2D, as well as motion video. Couple reasons I can think of:

1. OSX is still relatively young for an OS. Why is it that from 10.1 to 10.2 and then to 10.3 backwards compatibility in some software is lost? Why must we absolutely have to have a specific version of OSX to run certain software? Steve Jobs wants developers to embrace Cocoa, I can't blame him, he is a NeXT guy afterall. But when it comes to porting software, companies still prefer to stick to their C/C++ APIs. It's not that OSX is lacking in any of these development areas, I believe it's just a misconception among many developers. Whenever I see a discussion about Carbon, too often I hear the non-programmers go: *gasp* a Carbon app? It's not optimized for OSX! It's gonna be slow! They should have done it in Cocoa. It's all fluff, Carbon programs are every bit as good as Cocoa. The only major show stopper is the hardcore integration with the OS and ability to use certain services.

2. Software aside, the video card is the next obstacle. You can show me all the ATI 9xxx and Nvidia 6800 Mac video cards all you want, they are NOT professional video cards. Believe me it does matter. These typical cards we find available for Macs are gamer cards, although they can be used in 3D applications, a hardcore animator will tell you it's not good enough. I also want to point out that the Nvidia 6800 is still in very limited availability, furthermore you have to have a G5 PowerMac to use it. What happens to the G4 towers now? Disappear into oblivion? The best video card that I can find to put in a G4 tower seems to be an ATI 9800 Pro. I won't knock that card because it is good, but it is aging, and the part that really irks me is: that's the end of the line for the G4 towers.

I hate to draw another comparison between PC and Mac because I know I'll be stepping on toes, but hear me out. With a PC I have a wider array of hardware to choose from. This "control" and "integration" of hardware in the Mac platform is great - less hassles with hardware drivers, everything plugs in and plays - but it can be limiting.

There was promise for an ATI FireGL (a pro card) Mac Edition but I've yet to see or hear more about it, still holding my breath apparently.

 

[ex2bot]

Pengu, you're right on target. A+

Viru, you said you didn't think I was being fair to Winblows, but you didn't recognize most of what I was ranting about.

(I'm bored too, so. . . )

The little yellow popup speech bubbles. There's "Tour WinBlows", "Unused icons on desktop", "Get a .Net password", and "Sell your soul to Microsoft Now?". And on some machines, Viru, they SHOW UP MORE THAN ONCE!!!!!!! Speech. bubbles. bad.

How does puppy affect me in search? Not really. BUT, why the extra step? There shouldn't be an extra step. Viru, if you know Winblows, you know what I mean.

Firewall settings? How many clicks does it take to get there? OS X's prefs are MUCH better organized, simpler, better. Period.

Little applets, icons on the bottom right of taskbar. Little leaches they are. And ugly. And unnecessary. It is the fault of the OS. Microsloth allowed them to be put there. Apple has actively discouraged menulets in OS X. They should. Especially the useless kind.

MSCONFIG. Sure. That's great. I know it. And StartupCop (PCMag's). I've used them. Fun. WHY DO I NEED THEM AGAIN???

Windows decides to shut down because SASSER (was that it Pengu? I can't recall the name) worm commands thusly. Solution: Internet Security App. Don't need one on my Mac, incidentally. Don't tell me that there are gonna be a gazillion OS X viruses coming. I won't believe you anyway.

AdAware. Yup. $30, if I recall correctly. Does it get rid of ALL spyware? No. Most? NO. You also need something like Spybot (free, thankfully).

As Pengu said (or at least implied), network viruses _do not_ directly attack the Mac. Yes, we get some "collateral damage". But you won't see OS X saying "Sorry, I'm getting sleepy. Bye," because of a network virus or worm.

You said: "And this still doesn't detract from the fact that in the Maya benchmark, the Opterons pretty much had a 20% lead over the G5s."

I say: "Huh? YES IT DOES. Multiple annoyances hinder productivity. Malware affects productivity. It doesn't help when your Opteron ain't opteratin! In other words, multiple annoyances and malware detracts from, uhhhh, what you said."

Now, don't ya feel just a bit silly? No? Yes? No? Yes? No? So silly!

Doug a.k.a. "I had to reinstall Windows again, but I'm getting really good at it now. At least I don't have a Mac. I heard they're not Windows compatible. The horror!"

P.S. In the interest of full disclosure, I am STILL running WinDOZE, ocassionally, on my G5 using QEMU (open source). Amazingly, I got it to install on the first try. I'm also playing Doom 3. Probably the first G5 that is doing so. Well, it's kind of like a slide show. A slow slide show. No, actually the part about Doom 3 is a lie. But I love playing with emulators. My first one was a CP/M emulator for my Amiga all those years ago. Of course, I couldn't find any software and . . . I'd better wrap this up.

 

[ex2bot]

Incidentally, I believe when XP crashes, it sometimes displays, "[fatal error or something] We sincerely apologize for your inconvenience" or something similar. Much better than the note in 98 that assumed the user had restarted improperly. Minor. Yes. Minor. Minor annoyances add up.

But don't get me started on how UGLY Winslows is.

Doug

 

[Ricky]

Back on topic please, or consider the thread closed.

Thank you for your attention.

 

[Elliotjnewman]

thankyou ricky!

 

[Pengu]

Thankyou dktrickey. Nice to see SOMEONE understood my point(s).

 

[Ripcord]

Yes, but Windows crashes so much I still get more frames out of my G5 than my Win boxes.

I almost wish that were still true, but I'd say at this stage Win2k, XP, and OS X crash with about the same frequency, which is very rarely (unless you're doing something stupid, like using Windows to run some mission-critical corporate app)

 

[Ripcord]

Frustration with Windows XP can quickly lead to homicidal rage. That can quickly add up too.

Pop up: Would you like to take a tour of Windows XP?
You have unused icons on your desktop. Would you like to clean them up?
Why is there a puppy dog in the search program?
Where in the #@^$#?? h#ll is the firewall setting?
What are all these stupid little applets that insist on launching at boot-up? Can I go to the Startup folder to disable them? No? Why the #%@%?? not?
Why did my machine just shut down after I dialed up to the Internet?
My wife's friend managed to have 1500 files on her hard drive infected by viruses. What the?
HOW MANY programs do I have to buy to get rid of all this spyware?
What IS this network virus that is actively attacking her computer?
WHAT DO YOU MEAN _I_ didn't shut down the #$#(ing computer properly. YOU #*$#*$?? crashed you *#$*%?#ing piece of $h!l!

etc.

Doug

lol

 

[Pengu]

No. Wrong.

While I have never seen XP BSOD it DOES happen, but that is not the only thing that "crashes". EG:

XPs' Print spooler service dies quite often at work, you have to restart before you can do ANYTHING with printers (they don't even show up).

Programs "cannot open because of a configuration error" often require a reboot to work again.

When Explorer hangs, and (if you're lucky) automatically re-launches, it is not as useful. Almost all notification icons in the task bar (near the clock) do not re-appear. It seems to get more and more unstable FOR NO REASON.

And as for this:

unless you're doing something stupid, like using Windows to run some mission-critical corporate app

Define mission critical. Seems to me, that whatever your company does, the software you use is "Mission Critical"

Eg. 3D-House. Maya/etc would be MISSION CRITICAL because THAT IS YOUR MISSION.

If you are a simple agency providing word-processing services, then WORD would be MISSION CRITICAL.

 

[fryke]

Big and red doesn't seem big and red enough, sadly. Thread closed.