What would you do?
- Thread starter Trip
- Start date
brianleahy
Colonel Panic
One of my favorite self-defense stories. Unfortunately, I got it 3rd hand, so I may have some parts wrong. If anyone else has heard this story and knows some of the details I am missing, I'd love to hear em. It could even be an urban legend for all I know.
I once heard a story about an 80+ year old man in NYC who was a martial arts instructor - a real expert. He was small and frail looking, but obviously, his looks were deceptive.
One day, while he was walking home late at night, two teenage punks armed with knives leaped out and tried to mug him.
The old man destroyed them. Both attackers died. Each sustained 3 or 4 grave wounds, any one of which would have been fatal on its own.
Clearly it was self-defense, but one of the punks had been married, and his widow sued the old man, claiming that at his level of expertise, he should have been able to fend them off without killing them.
The old man beat the rap when his lawyer called in other experts from his particular martial art. They testified that the moves the old man had used were a standard self-defense sequence, used to fend off an unexpected attack. They said students had these moves drilled into their heads from day one, and so with no time to assess his opponents, the old man could not have switched to a less agressive defense.
The widow lost the suit.
I once heard a story about an 80+ year old man in NYC who was a martial arts instructor - a real expert. He was small and frail looking, but obviously, his looks were deceptive.
One day, while he was walking home late at night, two teenage punks armed with knives leaped out and tried to mug him.
The old man destroyed them. Both attackers died. Each sustained 3 or 4 grave wounds, any one of which would have been fatal on its own.
Clearly it was self-defense, but one of the punks had been married, and his widow sued the old man, claiming that at his level of expertise, he should have been able to fend them off without killing them.
The old man beat the rap when his lawyer called in other experts from his particular martial art. They testified that the moves the old man had used were a standard self-defense sequence, used to fend off an unexpected attack. They said students had these moves drilled into their heads from day one, and so with no time to assess his opponents, the old man could not have switched to a less agressive defense.
The widow lost the suit.
nervus
fencer
In my country (the Netherlands) you cannot have any guns/weapons: the right on force is just for the authorities (police/army). So if a criminal decides to break in your house, he will probably not be armed! If he is, you are scr3w3d, of course. OTH if you 'damage' the thief you will be prosecuted 
BTW my house was once visited by a thief a few years ago during the night. My wife, children and me were at home and asleep; we did not notice anything until the next morning. Since that time we have a burglar alarm ::ha::
Greetings
nervus
BTW my house was once visited by a thief a few years ago during the night. My wife, children and me were at home and asleep; we did not notice anything until the next morning. Since that time we have a burglar alarm ::ha::
Greetings
nervus
brianleahy
Colonel Panic
In *some* parts of the US, you can definitely get in trouble for using excessive force on an intruder, which I personally find appalling. (I'm appalled that it's illegal. Not that people would do it. If burglars want to stay safe, they should stay OUT of my house.)
One thing that is illegal nation-wide: lethal booby traps. You cannot set up a device that will automatically kill intruders. NON-lethal devices (pepper spray, dye pellets, etc.) are not such a big deal, but sometimes you will hear a story about someone who set up a shotgun to blow away anyone who comes in the back door. Not allowed!
One thing that is illegal nation-wide: lethal booby traps. You cannot set up a device that will automatically kill intruders. NON-lethal devices (pepper spray, dye pellets, etc.) are not such a big deal, but sometimes you will hear a story about someone who set up a shotgun to blow away anyone who comes in the back door. Not allowed!
Trip
Registered
Well I can understand the shotgun being illegal, imagine if you're daughter stayed out late and you forgot she was out, set the gun, and went to bed. Yea...that would suck.
That story about the martial arts guy is so cool! I took karate for 3 years, but I still feel like anybody could kick my trash.
That story about the martial arts guy is so cool! I took karate for 3 years, but I still feel like anybody could kick my trash.
brianleahy
Colonel Panic
Literally dragging someone back in to shoot them - yes, a bit.
But frankly, I don't think burglars have any right to expect safety while "on the job".
But frankly, I don't think burglars have any right to expect safety while "on the job".
If they have the guts to break into my house, then it's a perfectly logical assumption that they have no regard for other "rules of society" and I personally will not give them a chance to harm myself, or anyone else in the house.
They made their choice, and they will suffer the consequences of their actions.
They made their choice, and they will suffer the consequences of their actions.
So what you're saying is, if someone breaks the law, he can't depend on the law to protect him, and you should be the one punishing him. So according to your theory, if I run a red light, while I damn well _know_ that's illegal, I'm ignoring rules of society and anyone who does obey the rules of society can punch me in the face... (or shoot me).. Locigal..
brianleahy
Colonel Panic
I would think it pretty obvious that running a red light (assuming you don't, for instance, flatten a pedestrian or crash into another vehicle) is in a whole different weight-class than breaking into someone's home, especially WHILE THE OWNERS ARE IN THERE.
There is established precendent. Self-defense (and in many cases, defense of another) has always been recognized as a valid reason to injure or even kill someone. I maintain that it is EMMINENTLY reasonable to assume that anyone who has the nerve to enter my house without permission WHILE I AM THERE IS A DANGER TO ME AND MY FAMILY. He goes down.
There is established precendent. Self-defense (and in many cases, defense of another) has always been recognized as a valid reason to injure or even kill someone. I maintain that it is EMMINENTLY reasonable to assume that anyone who has the nerve to enter my house without permission WHILE I AM THERE IS A DANGER TO ME AND MY FAMILY. He goes down.
It's just a comparison.
Maybe the burglar doesn't know you're at home until he sees you, then you shoot him because he has the nerve to come when you're at home...
True..
But after you've shot him in the legs, arm, shoulder, whatever, he is of no danger anymore. You don't have to drag him back to kill him. That has nothing to do with self defence.
brianleahy
Colonel Panic
On that point, I agree. I, personally, would not drag him back inside to shoot him again.
I should add that I personally do not own a gun. I'd be beating on him with something, maybe my fireplace poker or wood-chopping hatchet. (If he's lucky, I'd use the blunt side.)
As a rule of thumb, I'd say that a burglar's best bet, upon being discovered, would be to flee, immediately, at top speed. If he's still pretty healthy when he leaves, then it's more dangerous for the homeowner to pursue him than to just let him go.
RPS: other rules of society mean killing me or another in the house. I share brianleahy's feeling on the matter, if they have the balls to come in, then I will assume they have them to injur or kill someone they find there. END OF STORY.
The redlight thing is completely another topic, and isn't a good comparison.
Of course, in Cali if they break in and cut themselves on your window they broke, they can sue you and win...now, tell me, how screwed-up is that?!?
The redlight thing is completely another topic, and isn't a good comparison.
Of course, in Cali if they break in and cut themselves on your window they broke, they can sue you and win...now, tell me, how screwed-up is that?!?